- Most important is to persuade them to WAIT a few weeks. This makes the job half done
- Mention your personal acquiaintainces who died or were hurt by vaccines
- Refer to Europe banning Moderna for young people
- Promote general skepticism of pharma industry as that "opens the door" to doubt
Also, general approach to persuasion is that it must involve ACTIVE LISTENING and empathy. The person you are trying to convince, must feel that they are listened to, valued and understood.
A common topic (coming from those who changed their minds, or changed minds of others) is to make the deciding person watch a video. Some suggestions to be compiled later.
Amazing response from a professional persuader LAWYERLisa (seatch for it): recognize the person type and act according to the type.
Recommend everyone to NOT use Google for "doing their own Covid research".
For the more closed minded people, ASK QUESTIONS rather than tell them how to think.
User MP was convinced by a family friend antivax doctor. If you know anyone who is a health professional, and is against vaccines, see if you can get them together.
Start seeding doubt with simple questions to try to kick start the critical thinking that has gone to sh1t the last several years...
- Have you read the 5-10 year impact study? (impossible, not out long enough)
- If an expert tells you a NEW product is 'safe and effective' with no long-term data to support that position, is that not a lie? (good time to bring up the European warnings/bans regarding Moderna)
- If an expert lies to you about long term impact, why do they deserve your trust without verification? How else may they be misleading you?
- What is the track record for these experts on related issues? On mask flip-flopping. On safe social distancing (5' vs 6'). On disinfecting groceries. On 'two-weeks' to slow. On restricting outdoor activity. On disinfecting outdoor furniture. On sitting/eating maskless being safe. On street-side tent restaurants being safe but not indoor restaurants. On lockdowns and school closures to prevent spread. On vaccines neutralizing covid. On vaccines stopping the spread of covid.
- Putting aside fear, anger, suspicion, and other emotions - have you done an honest risk assessment to compare the unknown risk of a novel treatment against the known risk of a negative outcome based on age and co-morbidities?
Very important -- if you do not have direct control over the person, do not forbid or command people. Make them make their own decision.
For those who are swayed by "majority", point out that the majority of Americans refused booster shots.
MY OWN TALKING POINT
-- Vaccines are hard. There NEVER was any successful vaccine against ANY coronavirus
-- There NEVER was a successful, safe, effective and approved mRNA application.
What makes you think that Covid vax would succeed?
The first thing that made me against COVD vaccines was an article posted by the Salk institute that the Spike protein was an agent of disease that could effect the heart, brain, lungs, and other vascular tissue.
I conduct leadership development workshops for mid-career physicians. In January of 2021, I was leading a workshop with 12 physicians and we were having the “must we conduct this workshop all wearing masks?” discussion. They were all Vaxxed and I had just had a negative test (and we had a humidifier and two HEPA air filters running in the room.) one of the internal medicine docs was adamant that masks should be required as the “vaccine doesn’t prevent infection.” (Mask effectiveness is a whole different issue.) All of the other docs in the room questioned her. She cited the exact verbiage in the EUA and suggested we all go read it, which I did. The EUA documents were very clear that the vaxx did not prevent transmission, yet every public health official, politician, and bureaucrat was claiming it did. Right then, I decided that if they would lie about “effectiveness” they would also lie about “safety.” I’ve never taken the shots and never will. Regarding being able to convince others... I’ve learned that it is easier to fool someone than to convince them they have been fooled. Even telling them the story about what I learned from a physician in that workshop doesn’t work. They just look at me with a vacant state. What I am saying doesn’t compute for them. My current tactic, that has some success, is to ask questions, using the Socratic method, being extremely careful to control my tone of voice. I try to make the question sound like I am truly confused and am sincerely asking if they can help my confusion. Even this has limited success.
My mid 80 year old parents were most likely going to take the shot. My dad more so than my mom. I called every day with more information. I emailed articles about it's dangers. They are both in excellent health and I finally convinced them NOT to take the death shot!
My main pursuade e forts have been to have parents not give the vaccine to children. What has been most helpful here are Iceland, Denmark, Norway, Germany limiting or banning Moderna for children. Progressives (my social pool) view Scandinavian and Norther European as educated, enlightened, and trustworthy. If they ban Moderna for kids, then there “must” be a good reason why!
Jun 21, 2022·edited Jun 21, 2022Liked by Igor Chudov
I started learning about the dangers of vaccines 30 years ago when I had my second daughter. I stopped vaccinating her at three months due to adverse effects. I did not vaccinate my last two children who were born at home.
I spoke nonstop about this to family and friends starting in 2020 when I heard that vaccinating everyone, was our only way out.
I sent my 4 daughters a multitude of articles, videos and podcasts to inform them of what was taking place, but they didn’t believe me. My youngest daughter who lives with me, would hear me on zoom calls with FLCCC and Steve Kirsch, plus my conversations with friends and decided not to get any more shots. She had two, despite all my warnings. She wanted to be able to travel freely. My second eldest has told me the same. I sent her and her partner an inordinate amount of information, which my daughter would not pay attention to, but her partner did, thank God. They got their first two shots more than a year ago and are not getting anymore. They live in New York City and eat out and socialize a great deal. My eldest daughter never got the shots. Only one out of four, really listened to me.
I am dealing with the anguish of my third daughter who lives in DC and has become oppositional defiant of my recommendations, even though she was born at home, not vaccinated and breast-fed for three years. I have no idea how many shots she has taken but she is having massive blood clots from her uterus. She’s 26 and wants to have children. She claims this happened after she had Covid but it probably happened after she had a booster. She will not disclose that to me.
There are so many excellent articles and videos to share with people. One of my favorites is the article written by retired neurosurgeon Russell Blaylock. Most people will not read data, do not understand it, nor think they need to.
My two older sisters and I were all on the same page since the beginning of the Plandemic so thankfully I did not have to convince them of anything. Unfortunately my best friends from childhood and high school did not believe me.
I posted everything I could on Facebook starting in May 2020. Many of my posts were flagged and I was put in Facebook jail a few times. I ended up deleting Facebook out of frustration in seeing so many highly educated, intelligent friends with masks on in their profiles and “I took my shot” frames. It was affecting my mental health.
Just saw a nurse friend of mine at the grocery store, she became very ill with chest pain and tachycardia after her jab that lasted about a month. Took the second due to work mandate and got same symptoms again. After several months she now has joint pain and muscle weakness and believes the government is trying to kill off part of world population! She asked how I was and told her I’m not vaxed got an exemption and worked as a hospitalist throughout the whole shit show. I told her I work extra hours because the vaxed and boosted doctors got Covid again and some for a second time. She wishes she never got vaccinated and very angry she doesn’t feel well. She asked if I knew one of the doctor’s kids died in her sleep after the shot and I told her yes. I told her that the doctor needs to speak up but probably won’t because many are hypnotized. She told me some doctors are starting to document vaccinated injuries in patients charts!!! I was so excited that there is hope left to overturn this evil madness!
I wasn't "for" but I was not full out against, nor expecting to find what I did. My first "ah-ha"? A presentation by Dr. Bridle, Feb. '21, that discussed previous failure of corona virus vaccines and why.
Other useful resources? Berenson's pamphlet's on the original trials. That was a "wowza" (e.g., not testing subjects with symptoms). I also stumbled across Dr. McCullough and Dr. Kory, and they were both credible, informed and concerned (for different reasons - Kory was not against the vax initially; just against the squashing of early treatments). His presentation on industry-capture was significant.
As for waking others, it is important to start out really small. I ask if I can share something I have come across that I think is important.
Good places to start: article on Health Canada's regulatory arm switching to pharma-funding (90%) or Pfizer's history of fraud and current investigation. Also, AEs being mis-labelled or missing from VAERs. I haven't tried much lately, to be honest.
If people have taken the shots, they are not going to want to hear anything too negative. That will invoke their defence mechanisms, and shut down the conversation (and the friendship too)!
The hardest people to convince in my experience are the highly educated scientists, doctors and technocrats, particularly the ones that voraciously consume NPR, NY Times, MSNBC, the New Yorker etc. I've had zero success with any of these folks, even the ones who are close relatives. My independent-thinking, skeptical friends often fall into one of these categories: alternative medicine practitioners or consumers, chiropracters, midwives, religious folks, constitutionally-minded freedom-lovers, autodidacts and the most notably parents of vaccine-injured children.
I did try to talk some people out of it. I failed. They were vaxed. HOWEVER, a couple of young friends were hurt and the person who knew them and who I had talked to did not get his second shot. He called me and said what had happened and thanked me for talking sense into him. I don’t think he would have done this if I hadn’t planted some doubt in his mind. This was very early though. I had nothing to go on other than ‘are you nuts? This is still in experimental stage. It’s a brand new technology.’
Jun 21, 2022·edited Jun 21, 2022Liked by Igor Chudov
Years ago, the local Mosquito Abatement District wanted permission to spray pesticides in the forest preserve. The forest preserve refused, which prompted a MAD trustee named Susan Levy to write an angry letter to the editor, complaining that the forest preserve "is exempting itself from science and state-of-the-art abatement practice."
I wrote a tongue-in-cheek letter to the editor in response, as follows:
"I'm sure Ms. Levy is right. After all, pesticides have a long history of being safe. When DDT came out, it was very safe. Then it was banned in 1972, and Mirex and Chlordecone replaced it. Those were safe until 1977, when the government forbade their manufacture and use. They were replaced with four safe new state-of-the-art pesticides called Endrin, Aldrin, Dieldrin and Chlordane. By 1988 they were all banned and Dursban, a new breed of pesticide that was scientifically proven safe, replaced them. Now the EPA is banning Dursban. Fortunately, we have safe new alternatives to choose from.
"So shame on the Forest Preserve District for ignoring science. And how short-sighted not to take advantage of the current pesticides while they’re still safe!"
I'm sure we could create a similar history of vaccines. If anyone has any particulars of vaccines once thought safe and later banned, please post here.
I was open to getting the jabs initially, but I wanted to wait and see how “safe and effective” they really were (side note, can we come up with a better phrase than that to convey the risks and lack of effectiveness). Then I quickly noticed the pro jab propaganda, it was an onslaught to say the least, and I got suspicious and made up my mind in the negative.
I know people who have doubts now that were fully on board in the beginning, to the point where it was a contentious topic. They have changed their minds because they’ve had Covid multiple times, and they are through with boosters.
I never intended to take the vaccine. But what really blew my blinders off was reading The Drug that Cracked Covid by Michael Capuzzo in mountain home magazine. It was pure chance that I came across this excellent piece of journalism. That was may 2021. There is so much evidence and testimony that early civic treatment was aggressively suppressed and this article just shocked me….then I read more….this fact alone—the suppression of effective and early treatment for covid—was enough to make me take to the streets. It was overwhelming obvious treatment was suppressed in order to justify the EUA for the vaccines. I shared this article with many and it opened one persons eyes that I know of. Most just “don’t want to know”. The implications are too overwhelming and frightening and the media helps to bury the info and keep people (willfully) ignorant. Thank you for your work here. We have to keep talking about this. Something awful took place and we cannot forget.
I don’t know that anything I have said or anything I have argued with my friends or family has convinced them of anything.
My Dad ended up on ER after shot 1 with a strange heart issue. He is on shot #4 and now has an aggressive cancer. He sees this as even more reason to stay UTD on his boosters. My MIL is incapable of self-advocacy due to religious abuse growing up and being absolutely deferential to any authority figure. She started a downward spiral with her health within 2 weeks of her second shot. Open Heart surgery. Valve replacement. Pacemaker. Ablation. 2 eye surgeries for worsening vision. She KNOWS that she was healthy before her shots and everything fell apart after. She still went and got her booster after ALL of this. And her flu shot.
The only thing I’m aware of that has changed minds in my circle is direct experience with injury/death (and even then many people choose not to blame the shots). Otherwise it’s not something we talk about to avoid arguments.
I will start this pinned message wiith "best practices" gleaned from your replies. To be edited based on your suggestions.
** Read Josh Guetskow "Reaching People" article
https://jackanapes.substack.com/p/how-to-reach-people-across-the-divide
Some thoughts from the readers:
- Most important is to persuade them to WAIT a few weeks. This makes the job half done
- Mention your personal acquiaintainces who died or were hurt by vaccines
- Refer to Europe banning Moderna for young people
- Promote general skepticism of pharma industry as that "opens the door" to doubt
Also, general approach to persuasion is that it must involve ACTIVE LISTENING and empathy. The person you are trying to convince, must feel that they are listened to, valued and understood.
A common topic (coming from those who changed their minds, or changed minds of others) is to make the deciding person watch a video. Some suggestions to be compiled later.
Amazing response from a professional persuader LAWYERLisa (seatch for it): recognize the person type and act according to the type.
Recommend everyone to NOT use Google for "doing their own Covid research".
For the more closed minded people, ASK QUESTIONS rather than tell them how to think.
User MP was convinced by a family friend antivax doctor. If you know anyone who is a health professional, and is against vaccines, see if you can get them together.
===================================================
Great questions to ask:
Generic Subscriber
3 hr ago
Start seeding doubt with simple questions to try to kick start the critical thinking that has gone to sh1t the last several years...
- Have you read the 5-10 year impact study? (impossible, not out long enough)
- If an expert tells you a NEW product is 'safe and effective' with no long-term data to support that position, is that not a lie? (good time to bring up the European warnings/bans regarding Moderna)
- If an expert lies to you about long term impact, why do they deserve your trust without verification? How else may they be misleading you?
- What is the track record for these experts on related issues? On mask flip-flopping. On safe social distancing (5' vs 6'). On disinfecting groceries. On 'two-weeks' to slow. On restricting outdoor activity. On disinfecting outdoor furniture. On sitting/eating maskless being safe. On street-side tent restaurants being safe but not indoor restaurants. On lockdowns and school closures to prevent spread. On vaccines neutralizing covid. On vaccines stopping the spread of covid.
- Putting aside fear, anger, suspicion, and other emotions - have you done an honest risk assessment to compare the unknown risk of a novel treatment against the known risk of a negative outcome based on age and co-morbidities?
Very important -- if you do not have direct control over the person, do not forbid or command people. Make them make their own decision.
For those who are swayed by "majority", point out that the majority of Americans refused booster shots.
MY OWN TALKING POINT
-- Vaccines are hard. There NEVER was any successful vaccine against ANY coronavirus
-- There NEVER was a successful, safe, effective and approved mRNA application.
What makes you think that Covid vax would succeed?
The first thing that made me against COVD vaccines was an article posted by the Salk institute that the Spike protein was an agent of disease that could effect the heart, brain, lungs, and other vascular tissue.
I conduct leadership development workshops for mid-career physicians. In January of 2021, I was leading a workshop with 12 physicians and we were having the “must we conduct this workshop all wearing masks?” discussion. They were all Vaxxed and I had just had a negative test (and we had a humidifier and two HEPA air filters running in the room.) one of the internal medicine docs was adamant that masks should be required as the “vaccine doesn’t prevent infection.” (Mask effectiveness is a whole different issue.) All of the other docs in the room questioned her. She cited the exact verbiage in the EUA and suggested we all go read it, which I did. The EUA documents were very clear that the vaxx did not prevent transmission, yet every public health official, politician, and bureaucrat was claiming it did. Right then, I decided that if they would lie about “effectiveness” they would also lie about “safety.” I’ve never taken the shots and never will. Regarding being able to convince others... I’ve learned that it is easier to fool someone than to convince them they have been fooled. Even telling them the story about what I learned from a physician in that workshop doesn’t work. They just look at me with a vacant state. What I am saying doesn’t compute for them. My current tactic, that has some success, is to ask questions, using the Socratic method, being extremely careful to control my tone of voice. I try to make the question sound like I am truly confused and am sincerely asking if they can help my confusion. Even this has limited success.
My mid 80 year old parents were most likely going to take the shot. My dad more so than my mom. I called every day with more information. I emailed articles about it's dangers. They are both in excellent health and I finally convinced them NOT to take the death shot!
My main pursuade e forts have been to have parents not give the vaccine to children. What has been most helpful here are Iceland, Denmark, Norway, Germany limiting or banning Moderna for children. Progressives (my social pool) view Scandinavian and Norther European as educated, enlightened, and trustworthy. If they ban Moderna for kids, then there “must” be a good reason why!
I started learning about the dangers of vaccines 30 years ago when I had my second daughter. I stopped vaccinating her at three months due to adverse effects. I did not vaccinate my last two children who were born at home.
I spoke nonstop about this to family and friends starting in 2020 when I heard that vaccinating everyone, was our only way out.
I sent my 4 daughters a multitude of articles, videos and podcasts to inform them of what was taking place, but they didn’t believe me. My youngest daughter who lives with me, would hear me on zoom calls with FLCCC and Steve Kirsch, plus my conversations with friends and decided not to get any more shots. She had two, despite all my warnings. She wanted to be able to travel freely. My second eldest has told me the same. I sent her and her partner an inordinate amount of information, which my daughter would not pay attention to, but her partner did, thank God. They got their first two shots more than a year ago and are not getting anymore. They live in New York City and eat out and socialize a great deal. My eldest daughter never got the shots. Only one out of four, really listened to me.
I am dealing with the anguish of my third daughter who lives in DC and has become oppositional defiant of my recommendations, even though she was born at home, not vaccinated and breast-fed for three years. I have no idea how many shots she has taken but she is having massive blood clots from her uterus. She’s 26 and wants to have children. She claims this happened after she had Covid but it probably happened after she had a booster. She will not disclose that to me.
There are so many excellent articles and videos to share with people. One of my favorites is the article written by retired neurosurgeon Russell Blaylock. Most people will not read data, do not understand it, nor think they need to.
My two older sisters and I were all on the same page since the beginning of the Plandemic so thankfully I did not have to convince them of anything. Unfortunately my best friends from childhood and high school did not believe me.
I posted everything I could on Facebook starting in May 2020. Many of my posts were flagged and I was put in Facebook jail a few times. I ended up deleting Facebook out of frustration in seeing so many highly educated, intelligent friends with masks on in their profiles and “I took my shot” frames. It was affecting my mental health.
Just saw a nurse friend of mine at the grocery store, she became very ill with chest pain and tachycardia after her jab that lasted about a month. Took the second due to work mandate and got same symptoms again. After several months she now has joint pain and muscle weakness and believes the government is trying to kill off part of world population! She asked how I was and told her I’m not vaxed got an exemption and worked as a hospitalist throughout the whole shit show. I told her I work extra hours because the vaxed and boosted doctors got Covid again and some for a second time. She wishes she never got vaccinated and very angry she doesn’t feel well. She asked if I knew one of the doctor’s kids died in her sleep after the shot and I told her yes. I told her that the doctor needs to speak up but probably won’t because many are hypnotized. She told me some doctors are starting to document vaccinated injuries in patients charts!!! I was so excited that there is hope left to overturn this evil madness!
I wasn't "for" but I was not full out against, nor expecting to find what I did. My first "ah-ha"? A presentation by Dr. Bridle, Feb. '21, that discussed previous failure of corona virus vaccines and why.
Other useful resources? Berenson's pamphlet's on the original trials. That was a "wowza" (e.g., not testing subjects with symptoms). I also stumbled across Dr. McCullough and Dr. Kory, and they were both credible, informed and concerned (for different reasons - Kory was not against the vax initially; just against the squashing of early treatments). His presentation on industry-capture was significant.
As for waking others, it is important to start out really small. I ask if I can share something I have come across that I think is important.
Good places to start: article on Health Canada's regulatory arm switching to pharma-funding (90%) or Pfizer's history of fraud and current investigation. Also, AEs being mis-labelled or missing from VAERs. I haven't tried much lately, to be honest.
If people have taken the shots, they are not going to want to hear anything too negative. That will invoke their defence mechanisms, and shut down the conversation (and the friendship too)!
The hardest people to convince in my experience are the highly educated scientists, doctors and technocrats, particularly the ones that voraciously consume NPR, NY Times, MSNBC, the New Yorker etc. I've had zero success with any of these folks, even the ones who are close relatives. My independent-thinking, skeptical friends often fall into one of these categories: alternative medicine practitioners or consumers, chiropracters, midwives, religious folks, constitutionally-minded freedom-lovers, autodidacts and the most notably parents of vaccine-injured children.
I did try to talk some people out of it. I failed. They were vaxed. HOWEVER, a couple of young friends were hurt and the person who knew them and who I had talked to did not get his second shot. He called me and said what had happened and thanked me for talking sense into him. I don’t think he would have done this if I hadn’t planted some doubt in his mind. This was very early though. I had nothing to go on other than ‘are you nuts? This is still in experimental stage. It’s a brand new technology.’
Years ago, the local Mosquito Abatement District wanted permission to spray pesticides in the forest preserve. The forest preserve refused, which prompted a MAD trustee named Susan Levy to write an angry letter to the editor, complaining that the forest preserve "is exempting itself from science and state-of-the-art abatement practice."
I wrote a tongue-in-cheek letter to the editor in response, as follows:
"I'm sure Ms. Levy is right. After all, pesticides have a long history of being safe. When DDT came out, it was very safe. Then it was banned in 1972, and Mirex and Chlordecone replaced it. Those were safe until 1977, when the government forbade their manufacture and use. They were replaced with four safe new state-of-the-art pesticides called Endrin, Aldrin, Dieldrin and Chlordane. By 1988 they were all banned and Dursban, a new breed of pesticide that was scientifically proven safe, replaced them. Now the EPA is banning Dursban. Fortunately, we have safe new alternatives to choose from.
"So shame on the Forest Preserve District for ignoring science. And how short-sighted not to take advantage of the current pesticides while they’re still safe!"
I'm sure we could create a similar history of vaccines. If anyone has any particulars of vaccines once thought safe and later banned, please post here.
I was open to getting the jabs initially, but I wanted to wait and see how “safe and effective” they really were (side note, can we come up with a better phrase than that to convey the risks and lack of effectiveness). Then I quickly noticed the pro jab propaganda, it was an onslaught to say the least, and I got suspicious and made up my mind in the negative.
I know people who have doubts now that were fully on board in the beginning, to the point where it was a contentious topic. They have changed their minds because they’ve had Covid multiple times, and they are through with boosters.
I never intended to take the vaccine. But what really blew my blinders off was reading The Drug that Cracked Covid by Michael Capuzzo in mountain home magazine. It was pure chance that I came across this excellent piece of journalism. That was may 2021. There is so much evidence and testimony that early civic treatment was aggressively suppressed and this article just shocked me….then I read more….this fact alone—the suppression of effective and early treatment for covid—was enough to make me take to the streets. It was overwhelming obvious treatment was suppressed in order to justify the EUA for the vaccines. I shared this article with many and it opened one persons eyes that I know of. Most just “don’t want to know”. The implications are too overwhelming and frightening and the media helps to bury the info and keep people (willfully) ignorant. Thank you for your work here. We have to keep talking about this. Something awful took place and we cannot forget.
I don’t know that anything I have said or anything I have argued with my friends or family has convinced them of anything.
My Dad ended up on ER after shot 1 with a strange heart issue. He is on shot #4 and now has an aggressive cancer. He sees this as even more reason to stay UTD on his boosters. My MIL is incapable of self-advocacy due to religious abuse growing up and being absolutely deferential to any authority figure. She started a downward spiral with her health within 2 weeks of her second shot. Open Heart surgery. Valve replacement. Pacemaker. Ablation. 2 eye surgeries for worsening vision. She KNOWS that she was healthy before her shots and everything fell apart after. She still went and got her booster after ALL of this. And her flu shot.
The only thing I’m aware of that has changed minds in my circle is direct experience with injury/death (and even then many people choose not to blame the shots). Otherwise it’s not something we talk about to avoid arguments.
This is the thread we need. Thanks