The most success I've had in discussion is with people who just assume I've been vaccinated because I'm a scientist and seem reasonably rational. (I don't fit their preconceived notion of a raging Trump-supporting hillbilly antivaxxer, I guess.)
I generally don't disabuse them of that idea, just let it exist as their assumption. I use expansive statements like, "we who support vaccination science" and "those of us who really hoped these vaccines would be effective" or something like that, in an effort to demonstrate that I am not their enemy. I try to stay calm and objectively discuss research findings. I try not to rely on too many anecdotes, but sometimes data is too abstract for people and you have to bring up the person you know who had a breakthrough and spread it around their office because they didn't run a fever. But in the end, I find that if I just try to make it about "us"as humans, I get a lot more buy in from the very invested vaccinated.
That being said, however, I did have a nice calm conversation with a vaccinated friend (maybe not a friend anymore?) who agreed with me that the vaccines were largely ineffective, admitted the vaccinated can and do become infected and spread covid, and stated that mandates were an overreach-but when I finally told her I had recovered from covid as an unvaccinated individual, she literally jumped out of my car at the stoplight to get away from me.
I responded to a slightly asinine post on facebook about vaccines.I posted up a meta-analysis paper showing vaccinated and unvaccinated could pass on the virus as well as a CDC statement about masks being fairly useless...one of the "entranced" was telling the person whose page it was, to ignore me because "they" only accept published science and CDC statements...which is what I posted.Its not really possible to break the depth of the trance state of people like that..
In re: Anti-Covid-Vax garb: "I Am Trans-Vaccinated, But I Identify as Immunocompetent. My pronouns are letsgo/jared." Add unicorns, rainbows, stars and sparkles ofc. V v brave if you go this step!
But how to reach those people as they are unlikely to wind up at my blog? To my delight, some people have started tweeting my letters at colluders, Covidians, and the scientifically-minded but deluded. I don’t do much on social media besides share my posts, but I have proposed hashtag campaigns such as #LetterToAColluder and #LetterToACovidian. I need social media maestros to help bring this to fruition, though.
Regardless, since my pieces often address Covidians directly and contain a massive amount of research/resources, people can easily wield them in exchanges with family, friends, and others they are trying to awaken. I can provide the tools, but it’s up to my readers to help deploy them.
I will also be launching a new series detailing my exchanges with Covidians on a private platform and the lessons I’ve gleaned from such attempts. Although it seems futile at times, I do believe I am reaching the silent swing thinkers who may be eavesdropping but not diving into the wreckage directly.
I agree with what it says but I think the format is woeful. Off putting. It shouts too much. Makes me wince. I have to narrow my eyes to read the text between the headlines.
And too much text. The messages are simpler.
And how to de program? I think they need hitting with simple slogan type postulates for that's what they live on.
Stop the reasoning, the persuasion, the logic, the logic, the data, 'It does me 'ed in' as the UK kids say. They won't read it, won't absorb it, won't think about it.
I suggest broadcasting this as much as possible:
. The Virus is nothing like as bad as it is made out to be.
. Even if it were the Vaccines and such are no way to stop it.
That kind of thing. Those exact things.
And only two things at a time.
And wait for them to ASK or defy us to prove them and only then present the proofs. Bit by bit.
Those two things are in fact the essence of the whole thing.
Govts reckon there's a terrible scourge out there: there isn't.
Govts reckon they have a magic bullet: they don't.
In all the welter and the chaos the simple truth gets shouted down, lost sight of.
I think we should just quietly and obdurately and with as little confrontation and fuss as possible bring it back.
When confronted silently hand out graphic evidence supporting the truth: pie charts, bar charts, graphs, data lists.
For a while there I made QI codes from links to good data, youtube vids, etc and printed them out on sheets of A4 paper and pasted them up around town. No comment. It just said 'Covid' on the top of the sheet. I think I had about ten codes on each sheet. In tiny print on top of each code was some indication of what that link was about but generally they were all just anonymous QI codes.
Idea being, of course, that people indoctrinated, programmed, to point their smartphones at QI codes in shopping malls and wherever would point and click and find themselves looking at a truth telling video.
Haven't done it for some time now. I still think it was a good method and I do plan to return to it. The whole issue has segued away from the validity of the measures and the lies about covid into a full on thing about vaccinations now.
And bug your politicians. Oh yes, I am totally in favour of that. It is our social contract as citizens of democracies it is what we should be doing first and foremost. Give them facts we have and give them our opinions, it's all legitimate.
Yep. I think don't confront, silently hand out proofs, bug the pollies, Give simple in your face two liners which, however, are indisputably true and can be proven. And post up QI codes.
Thanks, Igor. This is a good initiative. I sense many people are building groups of like minded friends to discuss these issues. I have three local groups in my area who hold meetings on a weekly basis. This is also a way to generate community and problem solve difficult questions like how to bring people out of the Covid cult thinking.
Thank you for this post! I spend many hours nearly every day trying to understand what is happening and relaying the information to friends and family via email, posts on Fakebook, and posts on Twitter. It isn't enough. And I'm sad to report many of my family members and friends are vaxxed and some are Covidians. I'm not sure they are capable...will ever be capable...of admitting they made a mistake. I'm pretty certain two of my brothers aren't speaking to me, but I can't say I consider it a loss. I'm beginning to think they deserve what is coming...but I have two young adult children and nieces and nephews who do not.
I've posted the following clip of the CDC director admitting to Blitzer in early August that the jabs don't stop infection or transmission and that the fully vaxxed and unvaxxed have similar viral loads...probably a hundred times. It bounces off them. This morning, I posted it again on Fakebook because the Pennsylvania Dept of Health claimed...again...that the vaxxes stop infection and transmission. There's a lot of push back on the posts; and, I suspect, paid operators working for the evil empire.
BTW, thank you for acknowledging that there are spies reading your stack. I've confronted them on Unreported Truths and Bad Cattitude. Clearly, they are sent to dwell among us in our "safe spaces" to subtly undermine the message or our confidence. Some are obvious. Some are clever. We need to call them out in sub stack as well.
Yes, these stacks keep us from losing heart (never gonna get the effing shots) and giving up...but we must do more. The evil empire isn't going to give up easily.
For believers, I like to point out the similarity to the worldwide vaccination campaign with the Fifth Trumpet: https://txti.es/fifthtrumpet ... that probably gives some Christians pause for thought.
I'm also equally or more concerned about vaccine passports aka "freedom passes" since they are actually segregating people. I point out that, once you enter that system, to remain in it you have to accept whatever jab or booster you are told to take. Better to say No now... because it's going to be much harder by your 6th booster!
Thank you, Igor, for this post. I like your ideas and suggestions. Personally, I am struggling just to find a way to share my concerns about vaccinating children with my siblings, who all have kids under the age of 12. I know they are very dug in on this issue and will not want to hear what I have to say. Yet, if I don't say anything, and something bad happens to any of my nieces and nephews, I will have to live with my decision to be silent.
I agree it is very important not to lie. And along those same lines, it's important to stay in the present and not try to predict the future. The truth is that none of us knows what's going to happen during the coming months. We have our fears. But that's all they are right now -- fears.
So, I would say, be truthful, stay in the present, stick to the facts, don't try to predict the future.
I find the best way to get people to think about "vax-ports" is to ask them:
"How many shots are you going to take?"
Then tell them the following:
"Canada has bought 135 million MORE shots for 38 million people. That's 3 MORE each plus extra for spoilage and waste"
Then follow up with:
"Israel just took away privileges from 1.5 million people for refusing the 3rd injection. They've announced the 4th is coming. Lithuania is the same but announcing the 4th & 5th shots"
And finally leave them with this thought:
"You can say "NO" at zero injections or you can say "NO" at 3, 4, 5 and the result is the same. When you REFUSE you lose all your PRIVILEGES because you have NO RIGHTS. You gave them away when you agreed to the vaccine passport"
Say "NO" now or just leave your sleeve rolled up and be a pin cushion for experimental gene therapy injections.
Thank you for this fabulous action plan and the suggestions in the comments! I can see what is happening very clearly and am independent enough to post like a madwoman about it all, but my biggest failing is in person conversations which I realize offer the biggest opportunity for real effects. So I would really like to get better at that! Can we post more scripts? Here's one I learned from a fellow freedom fighter and failed miserably to use in conversation. We have vax passes here which sucks big time and a fellow mom was complaining about them in regards to her 14 year old daughter (pass is 13+). I thought she was on the same page as me and so I was completely taken aback by her next statement which was that she wanted her daughter to get vaxxed ASAP but her daughter didn't want to do it and neither did the father. What I should have said was, that is her choice to make, just as it was yours, just as it was mine. We can all agree we would like freedom to choose. She went on to say she thought flu shots were a good idea because who wants to get the flu? Having just done some research on the subject I had a little meltdown in my head about how to raise this information; what I should have said is: and that is your choice to make! Isn't it wonderful?? So my tip is focus on freedom to choose because that is a very hard one to deny unless the person has been completely brutalized by fear.
many of my extended family are liberal lemmings and did exactly as they are told. EXCEPT, my niece and her boyfriend and NH. I think their decision was based on their wish to "make some children" this year. So, in my mind, that is one very significant example of "anti-vaxxer"
However, when I discuss this calmly with my very leftist brother and sister in law, I am scolded for even imagining that my niece is an anti-vaxxer. ..... only republicans are anti vaxxers.
at the beginning of all this when we were all scared I did what I try do as a career scientist. I read the primary literature. It was obvious to me that early indications of effective treatments of c19 were suppressed in much of the 'scientific' press and I established this appalling conclusion to be true. Beyond reasonable doubt.
By my understanding then, EVERY subsequent claim in the ridiculous narrative we have been cruelly fed is, logically, at best misleading and likely too a lie.
I will receive my GSK pension next year. I have defended 'big pharma' over the years as I have fond memories of working with the sharpest, most professional and committed during my brief industrial employment. Of late I have changed my opinion.
Screw this activist approach. You know any employees of patently guilty concerns. They and their families are now targets. We have nothing to lose this is a fight to the end and we all know it.
The most success I've had in discussion is with people who just assume I've been vaccinated because I'm a scientist and seem reasonably rational. (I don't fit their preconceived notion of a raging Trump-supporting hillbilly antivaxxer, I guess.)
I generally don't disabuse them of that idea, just let it exist as their assumption. I use expansive statements like, "we who support vaccination science" and "those of us who really hoped these vaccines would be effective" or something like that, in an effort to demonstrate that I am not their enemy. I try to stay calm and objectively discuss research findings. I try not to rely on too many anecdotes, but sometimes data is too abstract for people and you have to bring up the person you know who had a breakthrough and spread it around their office because they didn't run a fever. But in the end, I find that if I just try to make it about "us"as humans, I get a lot more buy in from the very invested vaccinated.
That being said, however, I did have a nice calm conversation with a vaccinated friend (maybe not a friend anymore?) who agreed with me that the vaccines were largely ineffective, admitted the vaccinated can and do become infected and spread covid, and stated that mandates were an overreach-but when I finally told her I had recovered from covid as an unvaccinated individual, she literally jumped out of my car at the stoplight to get away from me.
I responded to a slightly asinine post on facebook about vaccines.I posted up a meta-analysis paper showing vaccinated and unvaccinated could pass on the virus as well as a CDC statement about masks being fairly useless...one of the "entranced" was telling the person whose page it was, to ignore me because "they" only accept published science and CDC statements...which is what I posted.Its not really possible to break the depth of the trance state of people like that..
In re: Anti-Covid-Vax garb: "I Am Trans-Vaccinated, But I Identify as Immunocompetent. My pronouns are letsgo/jared." Add unicorns, rainbows, stars and sparkles ofc. V v brave if you go this step!
Igor, first off, thank you for the shoutout :-) I am honored to be in the company you list.
The problem you describe is one I am acutely conscious of. As you probably know, many of the missives I write (e.g., Letter to a Covidian (https://margaretannaalice.substack.com/p/letter-to-a-covidian-a-time-travel), Letter to a Colluder (https://margaretannaalice.substack.com/p/letter-to-a-colluder-stop-enabling), and Letter to a Scientifically-Minded Friend (https://margaretannaalice.substack.com/p/letter-to-a-scientifically-minded)) are aimed at people who have fallen under mass hypnosis. My entire mission is to unmask totalitarianism and awaken the sleeping before tyranny triumphs.
But how to reach those people as they are unlikely to wind up at my blog? To my delight, some people have started tweeting my letters at colluders, Covidians, and the scientifically-minded but deluded. I don’t do much on social media besides share my posts, but I have proposed hashtag campaigns such as #LetterToAColluder and #LetterToACovidian. I need social media maestros to help bring this to fruition, though.
Regardless, since my pieces often address Covidians directly and contain a massive amount of research/resources, people can easily wield them in exchanges with family, friends, and others they are trying to awaken. I can provide the tools, but it’s up to my readers to help deploy them.
I will also be launching a new series detailing my exchanges with Covidians on a private platform and the lessons I’ve gleaned from such attempts. Although it seems futile at times, I do believe I am reaching the silent swing thinkers who may be eavesdropping but not diving into the wreckage directly.
I agree with what it says but I think the format is woeful. Off putting. It shouts too much. Makes me wince. I have to narrow my eyes to read the text between the headlines.
And too much text. The messages are simpler.
And how to de program? I think they need hitting with simple slogan type postulates for that's what they live on.
Stop the reasoning, the persuasion, the logic, the logic, the data, 'It does me 'ed in' as the UK kids say. They won't read it, won't absorb it, won't think about it.
I suggest broadcasting this as much as possible:
. The Virus is nothing like as bad as it is made out to be.
. Even if it were the Vaccines and such are no way to stop it.
That kind of thing. Those exact things.
And only two things at a time.
And wait for them to ASK or defy us to prove them and only then present the proofs. Bit by bit.
Those two things are in fact the essence of the whole thing.
Govts reckon there's a terrible scourge out there: there isn't.
Govts reckon they have a magic bullet: they don't.
In all the welter and the chaos the simple truth gets shouted down, lost sight of.
I think we should just quietly and obdurately and with as little confrontation and fuss as possible bring it back.
When confronted silently hand out graphic evidence supporting the truth: pie charts, bar charts, graphs, data lists.
For a while there I made QI codes from links to good data, youtube vids, etc and printed them out on sheets of A4 paper and pasted them up around town. No comment. It just said 'Covid' on the top of the sheet. I think I had about ten codes on each sheet. In tiny print on top of each code was some indication of what that link was about but generally they were all just anonymous QI codes.
Idea being, of course, that people indoctrinated, programmed, to point their smartphones at QI codes in shopping malls and wherever would point and click and find themselves looking at a truth telling video.
Haven't done it for some time now. I still think it was a good method and I do plan to return to it. The whole issue has segued away from the validity of the measures and the lies about covid into a full on thing about vaccinations now.
And bug your politicians. Oh yes, I am totally in favour of that. It is our social contract as citizens of democracies it is what we should be doing first and foremost. Give them facts we have and give them our opinions, it's all legitimate.
Yep. I think don't confront, silently hand out proofs, bug the pollies, Give simple in your face two liners which, however, are indisputably true and can be proven. And post up QI codes.
I post tons on twit & so do others. It's really picking up.
mspink@mspinkest1968
Great for educating the masses.
Thanks, Igor. This is a good initiative. I sense many people are building groups of like minded friends to discuss these issues. I have three local groups in my area who hold meetings on a weekly basis. This is also a way to generate community and problem solve difficult questions like how to bring people out of the Covid cult thinking.
Thank you for this post! I spend many hours nearly every day trying to understand what is happening and relaying the information to friends and family via email, posts on Fakebook, and posts on Twitter. It isn't enough. And I'm sad to report many of my family members and friends are vaxxed and some are Covidians. I'm not sure they are capable...will ever be capable...of admitting they made a mistake. I'm pretty certain two of my brothers aren't speaking to me, but I can't say I consider it a loss. I'm beginning to think they deserve what is coming...but I have two young adult children and nieces and nephews who do not.
I've posted the following clip of the CDC director admitting to Blitzer in early August that the jabs don't stop infection or transmission and that the fully vaxxed and unvaxxed have similar viral loads...probably a hundred times. It bounces off them. This morning, I posted it again on Fakebook because the Pennsylvania Dept of Health claimed...again...that the vaxxes stop infection and transmission. There's a lot of push back on the posts; and, I suspect, paid operators working for the evil empire.
BTW, thank you for acknowledging that there are spies reading your stack. I've confronted them on Unreported Truths and Bad Cattitude. Clearly, they are sent to dwell among us in our "safe spaces" to subtly undermine the message or our confidence. Some are obvious. Some are clever. We need to call them out in sub stack as well.
Yes, these stacks keep us from losing heart (never gonna get the effing shots) and giving up...but we must do more. The evil empire isn't going to give up easily.
For believers, I like to point out the similarity to the worldwide vaccination campaign with the Fifth Trumpet: https://txti.es/fifthtrumpet ... that probably gives some Christians pause for thought.
For everybody else, I like to present a gentle drip-feed of truth, like the weekly stats from the UK Vaccine Surveillance Reports gradually showing how the vaccinated are spreading and ending up in hospital more and more. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-vaccine-weekly-surveillance-reports
I'm also equally or more concerned about vaccine passports aka "freedom passes" since they are actually segregating people. I point out that, once you enter that system, to remain in it you have to accept whatever jab or booster you are told to take. Better to say No now... because it's going to be much harder by your 6th booster!
Thank you, Igor, for this post. I like your ideas and suggestions. Personally, I am struggling just to find a way to share my concerns about vaccinating children with my siblings, who all have kids under the age of 12. I know they are very dug in on this issue and will not want to hear what I have to say. Yet, if I don't say anything, and something bad happens to any of my nieces and nephews, I will have to live with my decision to be silent.
I agree it is very important not to lie. And along those same lines, it's important to stay in the present and not try to predict the future. The truth is that none of us knows what's going to happen during the coming months. We have our fears. But that's all they are right now -- fears.
So, I would say, be truthful, stay in the present, stick to the facts, don't try to predict the future.
I find the best way to get people to think about "vax-ports" is to ask them:
"How many shots are you going to take?"
Then tell them the following:
"Canada has bought 135 million MORE shots for 38 million people. That's 3 MORE each plus extra for spoilage and waste"
Then follow up with:
"Israel just took away privileges from 1.5 million people for refusing the 3rd injection. They've announced the 4th is coming. Lithuania is the same but announcing the 4th & 5th shots"
And finally leave them with this thought:
"You can say "NO" at zero injections or you can say "NO" at 3, 4, 5 and the result is the same. When you REFUSE you lose all your PRIVILEGES because you have NO RIGHTS. You gave them away when you agreed to the vaccine passport"
Say "NO" now or just leave your sleeve rolled up and be a pin cushion for experimental gene therapy injections.
p.s. here's a good link to pass around (and to make a QI code of)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3odjlEn8qXY
Thank you for this fabulous action plan and the suggestions in the comments! I can see what is happening very clearly and am independent enough to post like a madwoman about it all, but my biggest failing is in person conversations which I realize offer the biggest opportunity for real effects. So I would really like to get better at that! Can we post more scripts? Here's one I learned from a fellow freedom fighter and failed miserably to use in conversation. We have vax passes here which sucks big time and a fellow mom was complaining about them in regards to her 14 year old daughter (pass is 13+). I thought she was on the same page as me and so I was completely taken aback by her next statement which was that she wanted her daughter to get vaxxed ASAP but her daughter didn't want to do it and neither did the father. What I should have said was, that is her choice to make, just as it was yours, just as it was mine. We can all agree we would like freedom to choose. She went on to say she thought flu shots were a good idea because who wants to get the flu? Having just done some research on the subject I had a little meltdown in my head about how to raise this information; what I should have said is: and that is your choice to make! Isn't it wonderful?? So my tip is focus on freedom to choose because that is a very hard one to deny unless the person has been completely brutalized by fear.
many of my extended family are liberal lemmings and did exactly as they are told. EXCEPT, my niece and her boyfriend and NH. I think their decision was based on their wish to "make some children" this year. So, in my mind, that is one very significant example of "anti-vaxxer"
However, when I discuss this calmly with my very leftist brother and sister in law, I am scolded for even imagining that my niece is an anti-vaxxer. ..... only republicans are anti vaxxers.
The stupidity and arrogance is astounding
Thanks, useful ideas.
at the beginning of all this when we were all scared I did what I try do as a career scientist. I read the primary literature. It was obvious to me that early indications of effective treatments of c19 were suppressed in much of the 'scientific' press and I established this appalling conclusion to be true. Beyond reasonable doubt.
By my understanding then, EVERY subsequent claim in the ridiculous narrative we have been cruelly fed is, logically, at best misleading and likely too a lie.
I will receive my GSK pension next year. I have defended 'big pharma' over the years as I have fond memories of working with the sharpest, most professional and committed during my brief industrial employment. Of late I have changed my opinion.
Screw this activist approach. You know any employees of patently guilty concerns. They and their families are now targets. We have nothing to lose this is a fight to the end and we all know it.
Also this site: https://www.reachingpeople.co.uk/